Excerpts from the show notes of the Just be it show
Episode 13 on June 2, 2012
Science and God part 1
Hello I welcome you to the show Just Be it at consciousness unlimited blog talk radio.
This is Rosemarie Heyer speaking.
Thank you for tuning in tonight. Here we explore the Inner Being, pure consciousness and look at the many paths and ideas how we can consciously connect to a Greater Intelligence in us and around us.
Synchronicity is part of our reality and I do not believe in accidents. So you have chosen this show so I invite you to stay and see what you supposed to find here for your own journey…
Today we will look at modern science and how it ventures into the spiritual realm to connect unexplainable findings of quantum physics, brain research, genetic engineering so to validate the existence of a spiritual dimension.
You can also find more information about all episodes of the Just Be it show with articles and quotes from the show on my blog email@example.com
I do appreciate your participation in this journey, love to hear your comments and ideas please write to me at firstname.lastname@example.org.
So the question we will discuss are:
Is it really possible to prove God by science?
Can science prove that there is consciousness?
Why is quantum theory the most used scientific theory to explain a spiritual dimension in our world.
Welcome back to the Just Be it show, this is Rosemarie Heyer speaking and tonight I am talking around science vs. God. One of the questions I want to discuss is: Why does classic or materialistic science beliefs advance and explain our complete world and the cosmos, without ever including on the fundamental presence of a Creator or the Absolutes?
I have talked about materialistic or classical science before in another episode, this science which is the majority of scientific approach today is still based on the mechanical principles which were laid as an foundation by Isaac Newton more than 300 years ago. The universe operates by natural laws like a giant clock, and there are no gaps left for a God to fill.
Stephen Hawkings refers to models of a universe which created itself, God is not needed.
Newton himself would have rejected this. He considered God to have a vital role in setting up the initial conditions for the universe.
There is an interesting analogy it was inspired by the idea that the cosmos is a well constructed machine. So an English theologian William Paley said, if one would find a fine watch in the forest the person must think immediately it must have been made by an excellent watchmaker. So Paley argues, that just the simple existence of such a complex and finely tuned universe must compel us to believe in a Creator, in God’s existence.
However as we all know classical science does not belief in the existence of the Absolute. However this view is only about 500 years old. Meister Eckhart who I quoted in the last episode was a scientist and a religious leader of his times.
The paradigma of modern science is to focus only on that what is measurable in detail, and that everyone else is ridiculed and shut out of the community who poses the bigger questions:
Like what is consciousness, what is the cause of all this..? It is forbidden to think or speak about this.
That is the sad fact…and we can see it in every textbook at school. Even, Werner Heisenberg one of the main founding father of quantum theory and his circle still discussed this view of modern science with his circle of colleagues He was certainly a man who did include the bigger picture.
You wake up tomorrow and turn on the news..its everywhere on…science has proven that God exits..
The explanation is so simple that we all understand it.now doubt God exists..
we would all see it as a scientific fact that God exists, like we firmly see it as a scientific fact that an apple falls down due to gravity…..imagine..
Children would then grow up learn it in kindergarten, in school…not in churches or religion communities…what would that mean to you would it change your Life?
There is growing number of scientists who in recent years who have ventured into the domain of the spiritual. They are trying to understand some of the inexplicable findings which might validate the existence of a spiritual dimension.
Steve Hammershoff, Fred Allan Wolf, Dr. John Hagelin, Hans Peter Dürr a student of Heisenberg, Dr. Goswami, Nobel price recipients like John Eccles and the number is growing
Some of you might have heard or seen the movie What the bleep do we know which features scientists speaking to the idea of spirituality and consciousness from their understanding of the world.
Yet could it be that in their attempt they are reducing spirit, God to just a part of their equations, to an object of scientific curiosity?
As the Christian Mystic Meister Eckhart says:
Do not imagine that your reason can grow to the knowledge of God.
The main theory which causes them to makes God part of their search are the findings of the quantum physics.
These findings are so unusual, bizarre and counter-intuitive to our understanding of our world, that eventually one has to include the existence of God to find out what this is all about.
Imagine you are putting sand into bucket…it flows and looks like a stream of sand, only when you go closer you realize It exits of uncountable small sand particles BREAK
Thanks for staying with me in this journey into the center of existence in matter…the quantum physics.
and if you look even deeper they are not existing either, they are waves and if you look closer again you see that there is mostly empty space…a field of power, a field of possibility. What is that?
The Quantum theory is most successful theory in physics (PET scans magnetic resonance scans are based on quantum physics. Laser CD’s) 1/3 of Gross National Product of Great Britain results in quantum theory, It opens a new realistic view of the world, and has been found valid also for the macrocosmos.
The deeper you go, the simpler it becomes, or elegant. Yet at the same time it becomes intensely dynamic, and alive. The deconstruction of this smallest
Particle leads to such a tremendous destructive force.
Now back to our statement before the break…when scientist look more closely at the atom modell they found that there is really nothing there…they compared the nucleus of an atom to the whole of an atom.. When they measured the distance of the nucleus in relation to the whole atom, they found that the nucleus is ridiculously small, like a small bullet in the mids of a football stadium, while the electrons (large as a pepper corn) are circling it in the stands.
There was a great philosopher and scientist whose name was Arthur Eddington and he gave us a model to understand this concept. He pointed out: here I am, sitting at a table, writing this paper. However, when I describe this “real” table in the language of science as I understand it, it is a ghost; in fact it is made of atoms that are themselves mostly empty space.
Is it really empty space? It is not empty but full of energy, vibrating, very alive. Grandmother Parisha used to say that even the space in front of us is not empty. Take a moment to stretch out your hand in the seemingly empty space and you are reaching thru dimensional fields of potentials and entities. A specific example could be the picture of so called Orbs People made pictures of these beings with fast flash light shutters..hundreds or more at the same spot sometimes…round foggy shapes were cached by digital cameras all over the world but not by the naked eye.
Your brain does not belief they exist , so you cannot see it. You can find links to see these quiet common pictures on the internet on my blog email@example.com
Yes it is in the eye of the beholder…
It reminds me on an anecdote the famous scientist and nobel price recipient Stephen Hawking shared in one of his books: says the fish in a bowl aquarium sees the world warped, distorted
and actually the city council of the town Monza in Italy issued a ban on holding fishes in a water bowl, for reasons of animal abuse.
The fly sees certainly a different reality then we, the bee communicated by dancing infront of the beehive..and sees things much differently..they would insist this is the reality.
So we send out our satellites called Hubble and say so far we have not found any other civilization. Making beautiful pictures, with the way we know how to make pictures…and we say well there is nothing there…Orbs show there is more then we can think off…maybe ET not necessary can be measured the way we measure things.
But most important is, science draws conclusion and not asking the bigger question: What is the empty space in the macro – microcosmos including the quest for the the existence of God, an Absolute consciousness dreaming this world.
In the Mayavada Sutra from India which speaks of the non existence of the (material) world it says:
What seems to be the world, matter and energy, is in REALITY consciousness nothing but consciousness.
The world is based and sustained on the imaginary dreaming power of the Absolute consciousness. END OF QUOTE
The Mayavada means teachings about the delusions (false belief of world) and are based on interpretation of ancient Vedic texts by the Indian philosopher Shankara over 1.500 years ago.
The small but growing number of scientist are convinced, that the universe, in order to exist, requires a conscious sentient being to be aware of it. Without an observer, he claims, it only exists as a possibility.
The idea of an observer derived from the famous double slit experiment. It proved that measurements/observing the process leads to different results …specifically that a wave a vibrational state transforms into particle and vice versa. You can find a link for a great explanation of this experiments by Dr. Fred Alan Wolf also featured as Dr. Quantumphysics on my blog justbeittalk.wordpress.com.
So consciousness is doing the measurement, which initiated the move from a field of potential into a result. However the result is not depending from the consciousness. There is no cause and effect for the randomness of the results, says science today. The observing/measureing consciousness is just initiating the manifestation but is not! Causing the specific outcome, which is always random.
Dr. Fred Allan Wolf says: Without us the world is a gue place. There are no stones, tables or chairs unless we the observer brings things into material being. All is just wave, field of possibilities,
Does the moon disappear when I don’t look at said Einstein, when he heard about that.
Yet I do belief that also these findings, clearly proven in many double split experiments, sound closer to spiritual dimensions than to material matter, isn’t?
What do you think, let me know by writing to me at Just firstname.lastname@example.org.
It is from the book called the psychology of consciousness by Robert Ornstein
“An Ant got lost one day on a sheet of paper and saw how a pen wrote with fine black lines..
How beautiful that is, said the ant, these remarkable thing with its own Life makes beautiflul designs with such energy and so large, that it is equal to the work of all ants in the world. And the design looks like millions of ants. She passed its interpretation to another ant, who was also interested. She thanked the ant for her good observation and thinking. But another ant said, I admit, I based my research on your efforts. But I noticed that this thing is not in control. This pen is connected with certain other things which direct it. This is the source of power for it and must be acknowledged. “ So the ants had discovered the finger.
Much time had passed, when another ant crawled between the fingers and discovered they were part of a hand. It did extensive research of the hand while it crawled all over it. It went back to its people and said: I have important news: these smaller things are part of something real Big. This real big controls all movements. “ But then they discovered that the hand was connected with an arm, and the arm was connected with a body, and they found feet – but they were not part of the writing process. The investigation is still going on. The ants have a pretty good understanding about the mechanics of writings, now. However they will not gain any understanding about the meaning and the intention of the writing, and how it is finally controlled –due to their approach of research. Why? The reason for this is, they are educated in classic scientific work. “ END OF STORY
Again as Werner Heisenberg says metaphysics have become a no, no…it is not allowed to ask the bigger questions, the question of a Creative Force, the question of meaning.
There are other concepts of Quantum theory which point to the existence of spirit.
Foremost the famous non locality and quantum entanglement, that show us that there is an order in the universe. I will be more specific about that in the next episode.
Let us have another look on the idea that our mind creates the reality we see and live in, that has be proven by neuroscience many times. .Interestingly is that the PET scan and the magnetic resonance scan of brains are built from the knowledge of quantum theory
Every man’s world picture is and always remains a construct of his mind, and cannot be proved to have any other existence. Said the famous physicist Erwin Schrödinger.
Whatever that reality is, it exists apart from our perception of it.
When I see a tree there I only see the image which I have in my mind. Not the direct experience of the tree. Whatever the tree is in true reality, it is not green. Light of various frequencies is reflected from the tree to the eye. Cellos in the idea respond only to the light in three frequency ranges (the three primary colors red yellow, blue). But it has been found out, that all that is passed back to the brain are electro-chemical impulses; no color here. So the green I see is a quality created in consciousness. It exists only in my mind.
When you see a drawing of a cube it exists just of 12 lines on a flat sheet of paper, 2 dimensional. However when you look at the drawing you immediately see a cube in 3 dimensional with depth.
There is the so called real reality (whatever that may be) and the reality constructed in your mind. The Hindu word Maya means delusion (not as commonly held illusion) delusion a false belief of the world. The reality we perceive is very real for us, hard and strong.
However our beliefs about this world are false. For whatever reason, we are designed to forget that this is not how reality really appears.
With our visual senses it is most obvious as we can see sometimes how our brain tricks us into a image which is not there. However this illusion happens with all senses, for example hearing
There is no sound out there. Just pressure waves in the air, perhaps, but no sound. Sound exists only as an experience in the mind of a perceiver–may it be a human being or an animal.
So will science prove that there is god or will ist always be a personal endeavor to find God within following the command which was written over the entrance of the famous Greek temple in Delphi: Know thy self.
In all mystical writings none had experienced the unions of oneness, the pure consciousness
In the matter around him…all mystics all enlightened people who experienced the same and the same (which I have shared many times in all my episodes) the melting into the Oneness, the dissolving of the I, the ecstasy of being swept away from an immeasurable sense of Love or Union with the Divine. All that was found within, the mystics and seekers told us: Go within…
And this means by experiencing it…not by measuring it or calculating it. It is the Great Mystery.
And this experience transcends any religion or any one philosophy. It is the maximum expanded comprehension of All that is.
C.G. Jung, the founding father of modern psychology said in one of his book when he spoke about the art of alchemy..and I think this is also true to our subject of today.
And I quote:
“…and these processes are mysterious, as they cause a lot of questions to the human mind, …
For which he will work still long and probably in vain..As it it doubtful if the mind is the right instrument for this. …Alchymie calls itself an art..for a reason. Because it knows that these are things, which can only be captured by experiencing it. END OF QUOTE
And I like to end and I invite you to take a moment to look around and realize what is really in front of you and around you…you are living in a field of potentiality of random results put in motion by your observing mind…
Thank you for listening, next Saturday we will look at non locality and other findings of modern science to find a validation for spirit…Have a great week in the reality you create, and remember:
Always always love yourself.